collaborative storytelling that is equal parts critical and creative

PEOPLE OLDER THAN US

Erin West​

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Michelle, 46. A psychotherapist and my neighbor.

 

What were you doing at 23?

 

I dropped out of college for a couple of years, and became the manager of my boyfriend’s coffee shop.

 

Why did you decide to do that?

 

It wasn’t really a decision, I just couldn’t do college anymore. It was probably a breakdown of sorts. Some time during my Sophomore year I met this guy, and we fell in love. That was really the first time I was happy.

 

Was that experience good for you?

 

So good. It was important for me to have that experience of paying my rent, and managing my bills, and knowing I could support myself if I needed to. Eventually I decided I didn’t want to work in a coffee shop for the rest of my life but I never had any doubt that I could support myself in a really basic way. At that point, your career or what you do, is almost like gravy.

 

Is that what was missing in college?

 

I don’t know if that was it. I came from New York City, it’s very urban. For me it was that ‘town-gown experience’ of leaving the college and meeting people who actually have their roots somewhere. Especially with small town people, there’s a real sense of community. Oberlin is so small you end up knowing people in lots of ways. Just having that experience in such an intensive way, I was like, this is what you need in life. That’s a big part of why I was happy.

 

At 23, did you know what you wanted your life to look like?

 

No. But at some point, probably in my late 20s, I realized I wanted to help people. I remember this one day, walking around Oberlin, the question of what I wanted to do was so scary. But I realized what I really liked about computer support was that a lot of times I’d be fixing someone’s computer and it would be like an emotional support session. So I was like, all I want to do in life is help people. That’s not scary, that’s attainable. That moment was a relief. If you really think about what it is, the essence of what you really want to do, it’s probably something you can break down into something that’s attainable. So I went to social work school.

 

I can tell you as a therapist, no one figures it out until about 30. The 20s is a time of figuring things out. Not like you know nothing but you have a lot of leeway to try things on.

 

Why do you think deciding what to do feels so high stakes to people in their 20s, instead of feeling exciting, or just part of what happens?

 

I think it’s not so great that we tell kids and teenagers that they can do anything in their life. In your youth, you’re building all these years on this notion of, you have all this potential, you have all this potential, you have all this potential. And then you get to your twenties and you’re like, wait when does that part happen? When you’ve been hearing in life, you can be anything, you can do anything just put your mind to it and do the work, you get this feeling you’re supposed to do something huge. Not figuring out the real stuff of life which is, like, how to exist on this earth in a way that is, I don’t know, more organic with the world.

 

I wonder what values or motivations you’ve seen guide people through their lives? The question of what job to have isn’t the most important to me. It’s more like, what do I value in moving through the world, and how do I shape my life in a way to satisfy those values? There’s a lot of language about picking careers according to skills and preferences, da-da-da, but I have a lot less language around other guiding forces.

 

I think what was so important about that one day (walking around Oberlin) is that I thought back on my life and I realized that any choices I made out of fear, did not go well. It paid off to do things, that even if they felt a little scary or like, I can’t pull that off, those choices pay off. If you do something because you’re afraid, it’s not true, and it doesn’t work out. So any time I’m confused or unsure, and that has been a big issue in parenting because it’s really easy to make fear-based choices in parenting. There’s a lot in our culture that says you can screw your kid up. That’s what I come back to: Am I doing this out of fear or am I doing this because it’s what I think fits me or my family? 

 

But maybe that’s a luxury I have, because there is a safety net in my life. My parents have my back, and I have made choices knowing they’re there. So it’s certainly a point of privilege, but to anyone who can afford to do that: try not to make choices out of fear. That’s a lot of what therapy is in a way, getting people to explore their choices and have their choices reflect knowing themselves and what they want rather than a sense of ‘should’ or what someone thinks of them, or whatever it is, just to find out what it is they actually want to do.

 

And you’ve seen those choices, motivated from real desire, work out better?

 

Yes. I mean, it’s scary. It’s scary to know what you want because then maybe it’s scarier to not get that. But I think if you know some things you want in life, it’s kind of more interesting. But those things are not like, oh I want a job at this firm, it’s: I want a day where I interact with people a lot, or I want a day where I’m alone a lot, or I want a day where I saw something concrete happen, or I want to just think a lot. It’s about knowing your nature, what suits you, and what you respond to. Because ultimately that’s what a career is: it’s how you spend your time, in the most basic sense.

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Rick, 58. My high school history teacher.

 

What were you doing at 23?

 

I was teaching history and coaching rowing at a boarding school.

 

At that point, did you know you wanted to be a history teacher?

 

When I went there, that was not a career goal. I went there because I didn’t know what else to do.

 

When did you decide to leave and why? 

 

It was not like a grand plan. I’ve always been interested in the constitution. In undergrad, that was a focus of mine, constitutional history. I decided, yeah, I’ll go to law school, it’ll be great! Frankly, I didn’t give it a lot of thought. These were not particularly mature decisions.

 

What makes you say that?

 

If I was advising myself today, I’d say: Law school? Are you frickin’ crazy? Think about it a little bit! What do you know about law school? What do you know about the practice of law? Not a whole lot.

 

So, it was a relatively uninformed decision.

 

Relatively is being very kind. It was completely uninformed.

 

Do you wish you had made a different choice?

 

Well, yes and no. In retrospect would I choose law school today? No. But I came to Pitt for law school because they gave me good financial aid, and first day first class, I sat next to the person who became my wife a year later. So, I don’t want to miss that. That’s 28 years ago and it’s the best thing that ever happened to me.

 

You went back to teaching eventually?

 

Well I did because of my bicycle accident and my head injury. I tried to go back to work about 3 months after the accident and they told me, you can’t do this. You can’t tie your shoes, you don’t know what day of the week it is. That was a hard way to change jobs. At that time I was rowing down at the Three Rivers Rowing Association, and I ran into a guy who was an old buddy of mine, who was coaching rowing at the Ellis School and he was leaving and he said, why don’t you apply for that? So I did. I went back to Ellis in 1997 as a history teacher and a rowing coach and I’ve been there ever since.

 

Same combo again!

 

If you don’t hear the word plan in there. It’s because there never was one.

 

Do you wish there was?

 

I don’t regret it because of where I am now. Where it’s led me has been good. If I were in a terrible place, maybe I would regret it. 

 

Would you recommend it (not having a plan) to someone else?

 

No. I wish had had somebody to give me some advice. My parents were supportive of me but they didn’t give me any guidance. I got a degree in history because I loved history. It’s not like I took the easy road, but I just followed what I was interested in, I didn’t think a lot about it.

 

Well, plan or no plan, your accident for instance, proves you can’t control everything.

 

No, you can’t. The real question is, are you happy where you are today? And the answer is yes. Would I rather be somewhere else? Doesn’t everyone have somewhere else they’d rather be, always? I mean yeah, I guess. But I really like what I do. So I’ve stayed there. 

 

You have to trust fate a little bit I guess. I don’t wish anything was different today, but I feel like how I got here today was largely by luck. You shouldn’t rely on luck. Or maybe you should! I don’t know. 

 

Haha, you sound conflicted. Do you think having more direction would have at least saved you some angst at times?

 

Who knows! There are times in your life when you have to make a decision that’s going to alter the course of your life and you never know where they’re going to lead you. We can’t see the future. I think goals are great, but plans are kind of dangerous, and counter productive. Goals are a better way to navigate it because goals can change easily.

 

No one ever asked me, What’s really important to you? And I don’t know what I would have said! I think I matured late. I know now, but I didn’t at 23 or 25 years old. How do you make a plan or a goal if you don’t know what’s important? You (speaking to me) have come out of an environment, your family, Ellis, Brown, where you’re encouraged to ask that. But there are a lot of environments where you’re not, families where you’re not. Where you’re asked, how are you going to make your next paycheck?

 

Yes. It’s ironic to me that this amount of thinking—about what to do—is a huge mark of privilege, but it’s also totally maddening.

 

The big changes in my life narrowed my choices: I met Terry…I had children. That kind of happens automatically. It sounds really cheesy to say it’s based in relationships. But if you ask me what’s most important to me, it’s my family. Everything else revolves around that. That’s basically what your values are.

 

What other values guide your life now?

 

At some point, I decided that teaching is what I want to do for the rest of my working life. Once I decided that, I said I want to be the best at teaching that I can. People say, how can you teach history? It’s the same every year. No it’s not! It’s always changing. That’s also the great advantage of my head injury, everything’s always a little new!

 

Have you been meeting people who are like, yes this is my life plan, I want to do this this this and this?

 

No. No one has lived that way, that I know. Everyone I’ve met, their lives have taken trajectories they never expected.

 

There you go.

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Keenan, 59. A self-described iconoclast. My friend.

 

What were you doing at 23?

 

I moved to Twin Oaks (an income-sharing community in Virginia) at 23. I dropped out of college after five years, failing to get a degree in business management. I decided that I wanted to be part of the solution, not part of the problem.  I also decided that I wasn't an extremist or a fanatic and that I wanted to be part of the solution in a way that was sustainable and that didn't burn me out.

 

Generally, what has motivated your major life choices? Has this stayed consistent throughout your life?

 

Being part of the solution, yes. Wanting to be happy, yes. Being kind, yes. Those values have stayed the same. But anyone, like you, who grows and learns, will inevitably be a different person in five, ten years than the person you are now. And, honestly, the most common transition is that people become less idealistic as they age, or, that they become less absolutely certain about any grand moral path and more focused on caring for the people right around them.

 

Does your life now, look like you thought it would when you were 23?

 

Yes.

 

Do you feel the same or different than the person you were at 23? 

 

Way different.

 

Do you feel wiser now, or were you wiser at 23?

 

That is an insane question which could only be asked by someone who is in the vicinity of 23. 

 

Do you have regrets?

 

That is never a useful question. Really, absolutely never. My hope and goal is to look forward to the future. Wherever I am is where I am. The only relevant thought is how can I get where I would like to be. Thinking about regrets is an obstacle to moving forward. At an extreme it is life crippling. The assumption in thinking about regrets is that there is one best path and that there is a very bad path. Neither is true. 

 

Any other advice for an idealist 23 year old?

 

Not really. Life will teach you what you need to know. Be healthy. Be kind. Be useful. A useful practice is to very consciously try to predict what will happen in any given circumstance. And evaluate how often you are right and why. That is a strong antidote to overblown fears as well as outsized hopes, I'll wager that you suffer from both of those.